http://crghlabr45r5pqkgnbgehywk5nxutdks5iss7tabyux5psikqqjirryd.onion/fit/4.html
Thermophilic yogurt (my first exposure to yogurt-making) you barely get any fucking yogurt out of it, most of the volume becomes whey, and I'd rather have it be yogurt- You really have to -want- a strain of thermophilic yogurt to make it worth it.
Kefir was a pain in my ass, mostly because the stuff I tried from the store was thickened with pectin, so I never had a good "measure" on what to expect for it.